Back to the Song Dynasty as a tyrant

Others also said: "Your Majesty's words are very true."

Zhao Ning asked, "Do you have any objections to the few cases of killing friends I just asked about?"

The crowd was silent for a moment.

Hu Yin said: "If you are greedy for your friend's family property and beautiful wife, and kill a friend who is very good to you, this is an inevitable evil. I think that any normal person will have no objection. It is related to the stability of the group. must be severely punished."

Zhao Ning said: "Does everyone in the world think so?"

"They all think so."

Zhao Ning said: "Then this matter, in the Shang and Zhou dynasties, and in my Song Dynasty, will there be any difference?"

"There will be no difference, it is a great evil."

"Since both good and evil are related to the interests of the group, then I want to say that good and evil are shared by all people in the world and have reached a consensus. Is there a problem?"

Everyone's brains twitched before they said, "No problem."

"The sun rises in the east and sets in the west, isn't that also the consensus reached by the people of the world?"

"Yes!"

"Would it be because Gao Taiwei drank too much wine today that he said that he is not a big evil, so he is not a big evil?"

"Of course not." Gao Qiu said immediately.

"why?"

Gao Qiu quickly explained: "Because I said that it is not a great evil, but everyone in the world thinks it is a great evil, that is my subjective assumption, which may not be true."

Zhao Ning turned his gaze back to Zhu Xi and said, "I'm done talking about whether good and evil exist."

But Zhu Xi said: "Your Majesty just mentioned the difference between good and evil between the Shang and Zhou Dynasties and my Great Song Dynasty. The common people still have a doubt."

Zhao Ning said: "You want to say that it is the consensus of the Shang and Zhou dynasties to sacrifice the living, but I don't have it in the Song Dynasty. How to debate good and evil, right?"

Chapter 1526 Justice Exists

Zhu Xi was slightly taken aback, feeling as if he had been seen through by Zhao Guan's family.

He said: "Yes, Xiaomin does have this doubt."

Zhao Ning said, "Let me ask you, do people do things they deny?"

Zhu Xi replied, "Yes."

"That group of people, in different places, don't know each other, will they do the things they deny at the same time?"

Without even thinking about it, Zhu Xi replied, "No."

of course not!

People who don't know each other will not do things they deny at the same time in different places.

Zhao Ning continued: "Then the officials from all over the court, the local state capitals, all know each other?"

Zhu Xidao: "We often know each other at work, but I'm afraid most of them have never met each other."

Zhao Ning said again: "Twenty years ago in the Guo Dynasty, there were officials and nobles in all the state capitals. In different places, they all did the same thing, annexing fertile land, right?"

"Yes!"

This is well known to the officials of the Song Dynasty. The land reform of the New Deal is aimed at land annexation.

"Then these officials are forced to annex the fertile land, or do they want to annex the fertile land?"

Zhu Xi said: "Of course they want to annex farmland. The officials just said that a group of people, in different places, don't know each other. They will do things they deny at the same time. Merging farmland is a profit-seeking behavior of these people. .”

Zhao Ning said again: "Then do you think their actions are good or evil?"

"evil!"

"Why?" Zhao Ning said, "Just now we said that good and evil are group behaviors. When a person does evil, it hurts the group and must be severely punished. But now these people annex good fields, which is group behavior and is achieved by the group. consensus."

Zhu Xi seemed to understand what Zhao Guanjia wanted to say, and he felt that the door was getting bigger and bigger.

Zhu Xi said: "Because the annexation of good land is just a consensus reached by a small group of people, not a consensus reached by the people of the world. This is a small group of people plundering the people of the world. If it is not stopped, more powerful people will join Come in, those who have no power will find ways to seek power to join in, and finally poison the world!"

"Then, is it the consensus of the world that the Chamber of Commerce uses living sacrifices, or a consensus of a group of people?"

If Zhu Xi said that was the consensus of all people in the world, I am afraid that the ghosts of those slaves will come to him.

"Thank you for the guidance from the officials, Xiaomin understands."

Not to mention the people of the world, let’s talk about a small organization with a dozen or 20 people. If you want to reach a consensus, you have to hold meetings and discuss continuously. In the end, some people may be forced to agree.

The world is full of controversies, and many people's mouths are faster than their brains. If they disagree today, they may agree tomorrow.

But in human society, there are some things that do not need to be debated.

For example, it is a crime for a person to kill a passerby for no reason.

For example, if a person steals another person's property for no reason, it is also a crime.

These are not the consensus of some nobles, nor the consensus of some civilians, but the consensus of all mankind, which transcends gender, country, age, and region.

good?

Good is probably also.

It is an act of kindness when one person helps another.

It also transcends gender, country, age and geography.

It doesn't need a meeting to convince everyone that it's evil, and it doesn't need a meeting to convince everyone that it's good.

Where does such good and evil come from?

Was it born out of thin air?

Zhu Xi obviously asked a deeper question again: "It's just that such good and evil, why do they come from, whether they are in the Dao, and if so, they are reflected in everyone, and everyone is one of the carriers of the Dao. Does that mean that human nature is inherently good and evil?"

This question goes back to Zhu Xi's way of preserving the principles of nature and destroying human desires.

Since there is real good and evil in the world, and there is real justice, where are they?

Obviously, the doer of evil is human, and the doer of good is also human.

From this point of view, good and evil are in the human body.

It can be further inferred that if we abandon the evil and preserve the good, wouldn't the world become better?

So, officials, let's "preserve the principles of nature and eliminate human desires"!

Zhao Ning felt in his heart that the scholar-bureaucrats of the Song Dynasty had a fatal weakness: they dared not face up to the weakness of human nature.

Always thinking about eradicating human frailty instead of accepting it.

Can the weakness of human nature be eliminated?

If so, why has human society been fighting, killing, plundering, deceiving, and disguising for thousands of years?

The surrounding ministers all pricked up their ears, wanting to hear how Zhao Guanjia answered this question.

They all knew that if Zhao Guanjia answered yes, then Zhu Xi would start talking about his previous Tao.

In this way, Zhu Xi won in the end?

"There is no good or evil in human nature."

Unexpectedly, Zhao Guanjia said so.

Zhu Xi said: "Since there is no good and evil, then the good and evil we just discussed don't exist either?"

"exist."

"Little people are stupid."

Zhao Guanjia said: "If a person often helps his neighbors, is it good?"

"Yes."

Zhao Guanjia said again: "If one day, this person quarrels with his neighbor and kills him, is this evil?"

Zhu Xi replied, "This is evil."

"But he helped his neighbors before. He may have killed his neighbor by accident. Can this be considered evil?"

"Calculate!"

"why?"

"If this is not evil, then everyone else can kill people everywhere in the name of carelessness."

Zhao Ning said again: "But he may have killed him accidentally. He did many good deeds before."

Zhu Xi pondered for a moment, and then said: "Your Majesty's intention is that there is no distinction between good and evil in human nature, but there is a distinction between good and evil in human behavior?"

"That's what I mean."

"Where do good deeds and evil deeds come from?" Zhu Xi asked to the bottom of it.

This is also the doubt of the ministers.

Good deeds and evil deeds are all done by people. They are real and are agreed by everyone, so they must come from people!

On this issue, officials discussed in whispers.

In fact, Zhao Ning knows that this conclusion is a bit arbitrary, because according to the science of the 21st century, there are very few people who are genetically inclined to commit crimes.

But that is only a very small part of the special existence. What Zhao Ning is discussing now is universal. He does not intend to discuss the crime of special groups with these ancient people in depth, because it involves biology and genetics, and it is impossible to explain it clearly to them. .

Zhao Ning said, "Why do people kill people?"

"You may kill because of greed, you may kill because of anger, you may kill because of beauty." Zhu Xi said, "Could it be that greed, anger, and desire are not the evils of human nature?"

"You've said it all, it's possible to kill people out of greed, but is there a situation where someone wants to take it for themselves but restrains it?" Zhao Ning asked again, "If this is the case, then the human nature of this person is Evil, or good?"

This time, Zhu Xi was finally silenced.

Zhao Ning continued: "There is no distinction between good and evil in human nature, but there are strengths and weaknesses. Goodness and evil are the consensus of all people in the world. It is determined by the characteristics of people. Suppose one day people cannot be killed. Will die of old age, and the evil deed of killing will no longer exist."

"If one day, people can't be killed, they will only die of old age, then the evil of killing will no longer exist?" Zhu Xi murmured, and he began to think, as if he thought of a lot from Zhao Guan's words.

The reason why good deeds and evil deeds can be reached by everyone is determined by the nature of people.

It is human nature to seek advantages and avoid disadvantages.

Chapter 1527 The Beginning of the Great Song Science Era

Today's discussions on Taoism have reached this level, and Zhu Xi feels that he has nothing to say.

He bowed deeply to Zhao Guan's family and said, "It's Xiaomin who is stupid."

Seeing this, the officials were shocked.

Zhu Xi lost?

Zhu Xi was defeated.

The debate is fully documented.

After retiring from the court, the ministers also talked in private.

Whether it was the fifth prince, Zhao Chun, or the later Zhao Guan family, many things they said could not be understood in one go.

In the process of human growth, too much daily inertial thinking is mixed in. It helps people adapt to the surrounding environment, but it also covers people's eyes.

After Zhu Xi left the palace, he packed his bags and left Bianjing.

He walked very low-key, sitting in a carriage, and didn't take many books. The only few books he took were all written by Zhao Guan's family.

That carriage, like all the carriages in and out of Bianjing City, was submerged in the vast crowd.

No one knows where Zhu Xi went.

Most people even think that he is still in Bianjing.

As for the result of the debate, it has already been announced from the palace.

There are two voices.

One is that Zhu Xi lost, to the fifth prince Zhao Chun.

The other is that Zhu Xi won, winning everyone in the hall.

This immediately made the Confucian scholars ecstatic.